riots

[seersy]

what a disgrace,these people if i can call them that are,if i would have been caught doing anything like these spongers id have been kicked up and down mount rd.life wasnt the easiest when i was growing up 1 of 6 kids,my dad liked the odd pint ,to say the least so we had little money,but i didnt steel,instead i got a job. disgrace.if they want to fight join the army.lazy freeloading cowards

[Lisa]

Hi Seersy, Exactly as all of us have been saying here on Manmates. We had nothing when growing up but we respected people and their property. To watch the mindless vandalism last night made me so angry. I just hope this silly Human Rights Law isnt going to protect them, yet again. If they brought out the Water cannons, they would then sue the Police for their ruined clothes. I did notice that most of them were wearing expensive designer clothing and trainers.....I wonder who paid for that lot? It wouldnt be a bad idea to have a Rogues Gallery when they eventually get fined or imprisoned when they are rushed through the Courts......but on second thoughts, it might affect their itty bitty Human Rights.

Aug 10, 2011 11:23:37 GMT -1 seersy said:

what a disgrace,these people if i can call them that are,if i would have been caught doing anything like these spongers id have been kicked up and down mount rd.life wasnt the easiest when i was growing up 1 of 6 kids,my dad liked the odd pint ,to say the least so we had little money,but i didnt steel,instead i got a job. disgrace.if they want to fight join the army.lazy freeloading cowards

[cabbyjohn]

SATURDAY'S football fixtures will go ahead after police agreed to issue every spectator with a riot shield and a stick.




Justice juice
Britain is set to have the largest standing militia in the world as football fans are given temporary powers to detain, question and perhaps give a bit of shoe behind a big wheelie bin.

Meanwhile pubs in suspected trouble spots will be given late licences to ensure a steady supply of thirst quenching cold dinks and keep the new 'special constables' in the right frame of mind.

Chief Inspector Roy Hobbs said: "We have millions of able-bodied men deploying themselves to major towns and cities of their own free will, so it makes sense to exploit their natural instincts and call it riot control.

"We'll just tell them that the rioters have said something rude about their goalkeeper, or whatever it is that normally gets them all worked up. And we'll also tell them that they're all Man United fans to give their baton swing that extra dash of brio."

After the riots have been surpressed the police will 'de-activate' the football fans using mobile cafes selling valium-laced meat pies.

Carlisle United fan Wayne Hayes said: "We're off down to Bury on Saturday and I can't wait to have a few drinks, watch my beloved team face a tricky away game against the newly-promoted side, strap on my helmet and my shield and go absolutely f**king crackers in the town centre until three in the morning.

"It makes me proud to think I'll be doing my bit to make Britain's streets safe until the following Saturday when the police will be needed to protect everyone else from me again.

"Just like things used to be."

[orchard45]

These yobs whinge about being skint all the time.Most of them seem to have the latest expensive phones though.Someone has to pay their phone bills,and it's probably their families coughing up.Whatever the outcome when any of them come up in court they should at least be bannned from Facebook,Twitter etc.
Although most are probably the so called underclass did you see the report that a teaching assistant was arrested?And an 11 yr old girl!!!What sort of parents has she got?Obviously they don't have much control over her.
I was not exactly an angel as a lad but if any of my family were doing that I would be totally ashamed.

[alfredp5]

I am 89 and have lived in many places.I have always praised the City of Manchester ,its people ,Its Industry and sporting prowess .However after watching those degenerates running amok ,I think I will keep my place of birth a secret in future.

[crabbygit]

I am sorry,alfredp5 but I disagree with you. I am a Mancunian and proud of the fact and I will still openly admit to the fact no matter what has happened during the past few days. Manchester is a great city , the first time the atom was split it was in Manchester, the first programmable computer was built in Manchester, The first railway station was built in Manchester, Britains first wholly artificial waterway, the Bridgewater Canal, the Manchester Ship Canal, the Suffragette Movement began in Manchester. Look at the way the city recovered after the IRA bombing in 1996, and look at the success of the 2002 Commonwealth games, when the rest of the country thought it would be a dismal failure. No, I am proud of my city.

[jackaitch]

I might add.....look at the members we have on Manmates!!!!!!Most proud to be from
Manchester checking or logging in very often

[Lisa]

Hi Alfredp5, I totally disagree with your comments. 99% of Mancunians are appalled and shocked at the behaviour of 'some' of its residents. Most of the ones committing the arson and theft are feral youths who seem to think the world owes them a living. A lot of the youths are also immigrants or children of immigrants who joined in 'just for the fun of it'. To disown your heritage because of a few mindless idiots is equivalent to denying who you are.

[alfredp5]

Oh dear I do seem to have ruffled some feathers .I have cecked my comments and can not see the word disown I simply said I would keep quite regarding my place of origin .At least until the memory of those dreadful episodes has faded a little .

[Lisa]

I think I will keep my place of birth a secret in future.


Hi Alfred, No, you havent 'ruffled a few feathers' - you are entitled to your opinion and here on Manmates we like to share opinions. BUT, surely to keep your place of birth a secret is tantamount to disowning your heritage.

[Lisa]

How can David Cameron ask for 'Zero Tolerance' when he insists off cutting the Police budget? I have been bringing the same subject up at every Police meeting I attend. I always get the same response......."Funding and Resources". If the Police have their budget cut, how can they be expected to go for Zero Tolerance? Maybe someone should have a 'word' with the out-of-touch Judges who hand out these ridiculous sentences.

[soloblue]

The reason for these riots consists of one word - Immigration.
A cowardly government, can you see this happening in America?
What kind of Government gives asylum seekers a £2,000,000 house to live in when British people who worked alltheir lives, paid taxes ect are losing jobs, homes ect? Want a great life? Come to England, land of milk and honey as long as you arn't British.

[jackaitch]

Aug 17, 2011 7:24:52 GMT -1 soloblue said:

The reason for these riots consists of one word - Immigration.
A cowardly government, can you see this happening in America?
What kind of Government gives asylum seekers a �2,000,000 house to live in when British people who worked alltheir lives, paid taxes ect are losing jobs, homes ect? Want a great life? Come to England, land of milk and honey as long as you arn't British.

This "land of milk and honey:" has been in operation for many years
in fact from the days of "Enoch Powell" who made a statement to

Parliament "Give ,em each 10pounds and send ,em back home!!
Nobody listened to him!!!!!now it is too late third generation who
have learnt all the angles on how to get benefits without a day of work.In 1954 I was having lunch in a pub somewhere near Grovenor street,,a guy came up to the bar started talking...then
asked me where I worked and how much was my pay...I gave him
some invented figures then he said "I do not work..the government takes care of my family"..He was drinking a pint...I was drinking half a pint

Enough said!!!!!!!!!!!!

[seersy]

too many immigrants,too many free loaders of our own.they all know how to milk the system .if you dont work you get free house,dentist .money,mobility car. the police shud have been given rubber bullets to fire,better still real ones.id birch the lot of em.instead they get a couple of weeeks in prison with a playstation 3.....i think i should b in politics

[Lisa]

Hi Seersy, I think your sentiments are shared by most of us and I agree with what you say. This is a tiny island compared to other countries and there should definitely be a limit on the amount of immigrants. The only ones that should be allowed in now are the ones that contribute to the economy not drain it. I'm afraid our hopes for a Prime Minister that will nail his colours to the mast and show some bravery and speak the truth about immigration are futile, but we can live in hope.

Aug 17, 2011 15:04:43 GMT -1 seersy said:

too many immigrants,too many free loaders of our own.they all know how to milk the system .if you dont work you get free house,dentist .money,mobility car. the police shud have been given rubber bullets to fire,better still real ones.id birch the lot of em.instead they get a couple of weeeks in prison with a playstation 3.....i think i should b in politics

[southampton]

Aug 17, 2011 7:24:52 GMT -1 soloblue said:

The reason for these riots consists of one word - Immigration.
A cowardly government, can you see this happening in America?
.

Well for a start how about the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles in 1992?
As for the cause of our riots being 'Immigration' I find that rather a sad and lazy remark, look back at the history of Manchester and there has always been a influx of immigration into the town from all over the world, I hated seeing what was done to my town (born and bred in Crumpsall) over the rioting periods by people who were in effect helping to destroy their own community but looking at the latest youth unemployment figures with 940,000 young people not working makes me think back to my early days when a total of one million unemployed people ( of all ages) would equal a full page one headline for days on end in all the national papers but now nearly the same number but of just the 16-24 year olds might make page 5 on a no-news day, the goverment has dumbed down all A-Levels etc ( Students of Sport, Media and Culture at Staffordshire University are fortunate enough to study no less a weighty subject as David Beckham ) so we are now ending up with students with degree's which are no help in job hunting, we were warned years ago that there was a danger of creating a 'underclass' of unemployed young people just as the USA had done, but we did not listen and the bankers and their friends and the 'Expense riddled MP's' just carried on helping themself to unearned bonus's etc and this new 'underclass' are now saying that they too want a share of the cake, and if you want to know the difference between Working Class, The Poor, and the 'Underclass' the latter have no standards whatsoever, and like it or not if this group are not helped to find their place in our society they will just expand in numbers and there will be more bigger problems in the coming years, the above is not intended to be a excuse for the riots as there is no excuse for them I am just trying to make some sense out of it all.

[soloblue]

Why do immigrants want to come to Britain? One word- Welfare.
Why not France, Italy, Germany ect? Do we need these people? No!. Im all for other people coming to our Country but only if they work and claim no benefits. Why do we allow it? America gives them nothing. You dont work you dont eat. If the government has so much money to give away why not give it to the health service? What has other countries got to do with us? We dont want or need them. Charity begins at home. There are British people losing jobs and homes, they have the right to be helped if they work all their lives. Get these scroungers out- NOW

[southampton]

Aug 20, 2011 7:38:37 GMT -1 soloblue said:

Why do immigrants want to come to Britain? One word- Welfare.

no there are those who come in order to improve their job skills, yes there are those who do come for 'welfare' but to bracket all immigrants in one sole lump is incorrect, a Polish friend of mine in Leigh came here 8 years ago got a job driving in no time and lasted with that company for seven years untill the firm lost a big contract with Tesco, he got a new job inside days, so why did he find getting a job easy? well for a start unlike most local unemployed he was happy to work hours that included weekends and Bank Holidays, after being made redundant by Morrisons after their Safeway takeover I attended a Job Centre for the first time in 28 years, amazing it was too, a lot of the local long term employed knew all the tricks in order not to get a job, ie tick the boxes in a order to create a job search which would come up with ie Looking for a job in the retail trade, Mon-Fri only no evening work no Bank Holidays and cannot be more than five miles away from home@ no jobs like that exist anymore in retail it is all late nights/weekends and Bank Holidays and they know that but it still appears on paper that they are really looking for a job, not all unemployed are in that mode but once you get there it can mean in time that not working is a 'normal' way of life, but instead of sorting things out Tony Blair decided to 'import' cheap labour from places like Poland, that was a cheap answer in the short term but long term it was a real poor move as it helped to create the 'Underclass' I mentioned in my last post, dont blame the people who come here to improve their lives but blame people like Tony Blair for allowing the flood gates to open.

[southampton]

Aug 10, 2011 12:12:42 GMT -1 Lisa said:

I did notice that most of them were wearing expensive designer clothing and trainers.

note this is Manchester so should that not read FAKE designer clothing and trainers?

[jonesg]

Aug 19, 2011 22:04:57 GMT -1 southampton said:

Aug 17, 2011 7:24:52 GMT -1 soloblue said:

The reason for these riots consists of one word - Immigration.
A cowardly government, can you see this happening in America?
.

Well for a start how about the Rodney King riots in Los Angeles in 1992?
As for the cause of our riots being 'Immigration' I find that rather a sad and lazy remark, look back at the history of Manchester and there has always been a influx of immigration into the town from all over the world, I hated seeing what was done to my town (born and bred in Crumpsall) over the rioting periods by people who were in effect helping to destroy their own community but looking at the latest youth unemployment figures with 940,000 young people not working makes me think back to my early days when a total of one million unemployed people ( of all ages) would equal a full page one headline for days on end in all the national papers but now nearly the same number but of just the 16-24 year olds might make page 5 on a no-news day, the goverment has dumbed down all A-Levels etc ( Students of Sport, Media and Culture at Staffordshire University are fortunate enough to study no less a weighty subject as David Beckham ) so we are now ending up with students with degree's which are no help in job hunting, we were warned years ago that there was a danger of creating a 'underclass' of unemployed young people just as the USA had done, but we did not listen and the bankers and their friends and the 'Expense riddled MP's' just carried on helping themself to unearned bonus's etc and this new 'underclass' are now saying that they too want a share of the cake, and if you want to know the difference between Working Class, The Poor, and the 'Underclass' the latter have no standards whatsoever, and like it or not if this group are not helped to find their place in our society they will just expand in numbers and there will be more bigger problems in the coming years, the above is not intended to be a excuse for the riots as there is no excuse for them I am just trying to make some sense out of it all.

So, its the "bankers " is it?

It couldn't be the legacy of the cradle to grave socialist nanny state could it?

Because it cannot be both.

A mind that is afflicted by resentment of the "rich" will never see truth.

[cabbyjohn]

So, its the "bankers " is it?

It couldn't be the legacy of the cradle to grave socialist nanny state could it?

Because it cannot be both.

A mind that is afflicted by resentment of the "rich" will never see truth.

Read more: manmates.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=952#ixzz1VjnQJn1Q






I remember reading many years ago about the difference in attitudes between the English and Americans.

An Englishman standing at a bus stop in the rain watches a Rolls Royce glide past, and thinks to himself. "Rich B*****d" An American in a similar situation watching a Cadilac drive by would think to himself. "If I buckle down and work hard enough, one day I may be in a position to buy one of those for myself". This is a very broad generalisation, we all know that there are inequalities in both of our systems. We are all born equal, it's just that some are born more equal than others. It's been argued that those rioting and looting were from disfunctional single parent families, but a lot of the people appearing in court are from decent law abiding two parent families, in some cases from well to do backgrounds. The one thing that seems to have come out of this temporarily is the fear of getting caught and named and shamed. It won't last of course, once this knee jerk reaction has subsided, the police and the courts will go back to their normal apparent complacency and things will return to normal. England has by far the highest percentage of CCTV in the world. It's no good using them just to catch unwary motorists, use them to send out the message, Big brother is watching you. Step out of line and you will be caught and punished. We now live in a Big brother police state, why not use it to deter crime and not just rake in motoring fines?

[southampton]

Quote: A mind that is afflicted by resentment of the "rich" will never see truth. Quote:


I have never had a resentment of 'rich people' in fact would like to be rich myself, but I do have a resentment of those who rob the general public like those MP's with their false 'expenses' claims, and those in the city who award them self vast unearned 'bonus' money no matter how poor their company has done, if those at the top set a poor example those at the bottom will in time take the same standards into their life, at one time if a MP was caught in the wrong bed or was found to be taking back handers they did the honourable thing and resigned, but then came along MP's like Archer and Parkinson who had to be forced to go, and there is also our Royal family who apart from the Queen herself have not set a good example to their subjects, yes the nanny state is to blame for a lot of things but untill those in power start to raise their standards then should we expect those at the bottom rung to raise theirs?. yes by all means point your finger at those at the bottom-the underclass for example- but do not forget to also point a finger or two at those at the top.

[southampton]

Aug 22, 2011 2:21:55 GMT -1 jonesg said:

[quote

A mind that is afflicted by resentment of the rich will never see truth.

Just how you made my post to read that I resent the rich is not clear to me, you have read/seen something which is not there, if someone gets rich by his or her own lawfull means I say good for them, yesterday at my local petrol station a newish black Lamborghini came to the pump next to me, I was on my Ducati bike, later at the queue to pay I said to him "nice car" it turned out he has run his own company for the last 20 years "started off with working 7 days a week in order to get the firm in good shape and now I allow myself a few extras like the car now and again" I raise my hand to people like that but not to the bankers who run our state owned banks at a loss and still demand a big bonus at the end of the year.

[cabbyjohn]

Aug 22, 2011 8:51:03 GMT -1 southampton said:

Quote: A mind that is afflicted by resentment of the "rich" will never see truth. Quote:


I have never had a resentment of 'rich people' in fact would like to be rich myself, but I do have a resentment of those who rob the general public like those MP's with their false 'expenses' claims, and those in the city who award them self vast unearned 'bonus' money no matter how poor their company has done, if those at the top set a poor example those at the bottom will in time take the same standards into their life, at one time if a MP was caught in the wrong bed or was found to be taking back handers they did the honourable thing and resigned, but then came along MP's like Archer and Parkinson who had to be forced to go, and there is also our Royal family who apart from the Queen herself have not set a good example to their subjects, yes the nanny state is to blame for a lot of things but untill those in power start to raise their standards then should we expect those at the bottom rung to raise theirs?. yes by all means point your finger at those at the bottom-the underclass for example- but do not forget to also point a finger or two at those at the top.

Hi southampton,

YES! We should expect those at the bottom of the rung to raise their standards. Anything else would be defeatist and we may as well all throw the towel in and retire to a life on sociial security benefits. I would suggest that most Manmates members started out in life with a lot less in material things than todays so called underclass. However it didn't occur to us to go out and rob riot or loot. We got on with life and made the most of it. A lot of us knew what real poverty was like, walking to school in the rain with cardboard in our shoes, burning old furniture on occasion to keep warm in winter. Yet never for a second did we consider going out and smashing a shop window in to steal some left footed trainers or a bottle of alcohol. I worked, and when I was made redundant I took any job including selling door to door until something better came along.

Yes we are led by people in high places who use the old dictum "Don't do as I do, do as I say" whilst they live high on the hog, promising us the world intil we stupidly vote them into power. Tony multimillionaire Blair, money made mainly on the blood of our brave service men and women sent off to war on a lie. Peter liar mandelson, Sorry LORD Mandelson, he of the dodgy mortages. I could go on and on but it wouldn't change anything, that's for the future when I believe that there will be large scale civil unrest in this country. However to suggest that somehow it's understandable why these things happened recently is to go down the path of anarchy. I am not including you when I say that, (I accept that you were playing Devils advocate). However we should be trying to bring them up to our standards and morals, rather than sinking down to theirs.



The item below is partially taken from a recent article in the Independant. It speaks volumes.






If Britain looked like its government, about four million adults would have gone to Eton, there would be no black people, and for every one woman there would be six men.


Analysis by The Independent of the social origins of members of the coalition government – the most extensive exercise of its kind – reveals that one-tenth of all the minsters in the Government attended just one public school: Eton. Overall, two-thirds of ministers were educated partly or entirely outside the mainstream state school system, and one in five went to one of the old established top public schools.

Also, in stark contrast to the reality of life outside Westminster and Whitehall, there are no black members of the British government, and only three Asians and two openly gay men. Old Wellingtonians alone outnumber the products of secondary modern and technical schools.

Related articles
Rupert Cornwell: America wants its own David Cameron
The Independent's Findings - PDF
Search the news archive for more stories
Three Old Etonians are in the Cabinet or attend it, around the same as could be sometimes found in Mrs Thatcher’s time, and down from the six at Harold Macmillan’s top table half a century ago or the eight in Neville Chamberlain’s cabinets before the Second World War. The OEs became extinct in the Blair-Brown era, but are back in some numbers – a dozen in government, enough for a soccer team and a sub. They form what has been likened to a Mafia-style network in important jobs in and around Westminster, not excluding Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London and fellow ex-Bullingdonian friend of Mr Cameron.

[Lisa]

QUITE POSSIBLY.

Aug 21, 2011 19:31:03 GMT -1 southampton said:

Aug 10, 2011 12:12:42 GMT -1 Lisa said:

I did notice that most of them were wearing expensive designer clothing and trainers.

note this is Manchester so should that not read FAKE designer clothing and trainers?

[jonesg]

I don't make excuses for criminals by calling them the underclass.
But you can if you like.

[jonesg]

Last time I checked there were no bankers or politicians rioting.

Mixing the two or using one to imply it causes the other is nonesense. Thats exactly the logic used by looters, their logic is impaired, because they are ,plainly speaking, nuts.
If they were sober and sane they wouldn't have even been there.

Theres a simple distinction between the politician who becomes rich and the rioter, one is legal the other is an idiot.

One games the system, the other can't figure the system out, they can barely comprehend life or society to get started.

In a free society, no-one is financially equal and life is never fair.
That makes success more difficult, but its not supposed to be easy or we'd all be mediocre.

When outcomes are made equal, there is no freedom.
Where there is freedom there is inequality.

[jonesg]

Aug 22, 2011 5:59:04 GMT -1 cabbyjohn said:

I remember reading many years ago about the difference in attitudes between the English and Americans.

An Englishman standing at a bus stop in the rain watches a Rolls Royce glide past, and thinks to himself. "Rich B*****d" An American in a similar situation watching a Cadilac drive by would think to himself. "If I buckle down and work hard enough, one day I may be in a position to buy one of those for myself". This is a very broad generalisation, we all know that there are inequalities in both of our systems. We are all born equal, it's just that some are born more equal than others. It's been argued that those rioting and looting were from disfunctional single parent families, but a lot of the people appearing in court are from decent law abiding two parent families, in some cases from well to do backgrounds. The one thing that seems to have come out of this temporarily is the fear of getting caught and named and shamed. It won't last of course, once this knee jerk reaction has subsided, the police and the courts will go back to their normal apparent complacency and things will return to normal. England has by far the highest percentage of CCTV in the world. It's no good using them just to catch unwary motorists, use them to send out the message, Big brother is watching you. Step out of line and you will be caught and punished. We now live in a Big brother police state, why not use it to deter crime and not just rake in motoring fines?

I've lived both sides of the coin, grew up in Manchester, educated to a good standard but unprepared for American capitalism.
I was closer to a socialist, I was naieve, simple minded.
In due time I became involved in a business and learned things I couldn't have known growing up as I did. My partner taught me all about the culture of commerce, she was jewish and a tiger when it came to doing business. She proved many times what an imbecile I was, but I learned.

The most important lesson is those who resent the rich shouldn't worry about it because they will never be rich, they will not allow themselves to ever be rich, they are rejecting the attitudes and values that put rich people on the path to wealth.

How often have I read the poor are getting poorer whilst the rich are getting richer, as if that makes logical sense! ;D
If I always do what I always did, I'll always get what I always got. duh.!

Theres just as many opportunities for wealth generation in England as anywhere but there isn't a system that teaches how ...or even worse, a mechanism that teaches the values required. For myself and most business owners I know, its not about the money, it never was, its about the game and how its played. The money is just the gravy.

A couple of things I had a hard time grasping, there is no such thing as ethics in business. Its either legal or illegal, trying to make a case for ethics is an attempt to evade self responsibility.

And ... the able bodied poor are greedy.
I had a hard time with that because I started out poor, but I could look back and see where it kept me poor.

[soloblue]

If people want to come to work in Britain ok, but they are not entitled to the benefits system. They dont contibute so why should they get it? British people should get jobs first for after all they are born in the country so they should get first refusal. And yes it is for benefits that the majority come for. If they come with no money how can they expect to live? Where do they expect to live? Who pays for it? We are in a recession we cannot aford these people. There shouls be a 10 year ban on immigration ans asylum seekers. How many of these people get expensive houses paid for by the government? How many British people get £2,000,000+ houses if they are out of work? They lose everything through no fault of their own. This needs to stop. If immigrants come to this country they should abide by our laws or go somewhere else. But then again there would be no Social Security"!

[seersy]

in my opinion the courts r too soft,i heard about a lad from salford who robbed a dfs furniture shop during the riots,when he went to court he got a hefty fine,but got 4 years to pay then 12 months interest free